There is a natural law which accords with reason. Take Scott Hahn for example. Many years later, after several discussions with theologians, priests and laypersons, I still do not understand the arguments against ordaining women. Why Are You? But the Evangelists do mention the women who were the disciples of Jesus. This causes suffering down the line that is easily preventable. You fail to point out how Catholicism makes people more moral. Male authorship, rather. But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him." Beyond that conspiracies tend to be...leaky. Warning: This story includes accounts of reported child sex abuse. I was a cradle catholic and my father is still a deacon. I had no idea growing up that we had 14 more books than we should have. The U.S. Navy reversed a controversial cost-cutting decision to suspend most contracts for Catholic priests, a move that would have canceled Catholic Masses at Naval bases in Southern California. It simply means that the answer to any complex ethical issue we are faced with is always achieved by weighing the different alternatives in terms of positive and negative impact on the well-being of all parties involved and choosing the alternative that involves the greatest benefit or smallest amount of harm. I don't believe in any of that anymore. the existence of God. Citizens of Jerusalem would have definitely seen the Crucifixion happen (the Romans made it public on purpose), and I don't think they would have just bought the story of a few outcast Jewish men that "this man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. The "many others" here are specifically women as the Greek reads "ἕτεραι πολλαί" - both feminine plurals. LilyM: I think you misunderstood that post. We know of Phoebe, a deaconess. The host of "The Sean Hannity Show" revealed in a clip shared with The Christian Post that despite attending Catholic school for 12 years, he is no longer affiliated with the Catholic Church due to “too much institutionalized corruption” that has not been “rectified.” In addition to being male, all disciples probably wore sandals, had long hair and were circumcised. /r/Catholicism is a place to present new developments in the world of Catholicism, discuss theological teachings of the Catholic Church, provide an avenue for reasonable dialogue amongst people of all beliefs, and grow in our own spirituality. Catholic theologians know next to nothing. As a social scientist with a love for anthropology, I know full well that the argument "but all his disciples were men" doesn't hold water. Yet none of these attributes were retained as relevant to designate the category of humans from which cahotlic priests should be selected. I desire peace with all men, but the Bible also encourages me to boldly and confidently present a scriptural basis for truth. (still reading, so I have yet to determine your motives - sorry if that sounds harsh). Reddit. 2. I am logging off for the night. The signs of … It cannot boil down to a simple list of do's and don'ts that can apply regardless of context. Ok. You are right about this. We know of Mary, the mother of James and John. No Longer Catholic It is becoming increasingly difficult to find a good Catholic college these days, particularly because so many Catholic colleges are Catholic in name only. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. This was very hard to read and deeply saddened me. My 15 y.o. 3. Over time, NLQ has developed into a … The Catholic Church isn’t even historical. Catholic Christianity offers the world the fullness of the Christian Faith. Catholic Christianity offers the world the fullness of the Christian Faith. A mismatch between needs/requirements and available resources is the root cause of most social ills and if you increase the number of people and by consequence their needs/requirements without increasing the resources, you create less well-being, not more. I think there where more than 12 that died horrible deaths, for believing in Christ. I’m from a large Catholic family — five sisters and two brothers, most of whom left the Church years ago for a multitude of reasons. LinkedIn. These men were telling a story and preaching a message, and people--even those who you wouldn't expect--were listening for a reason. The wonder of procreation, the life-giving power of the female, so scary to men that they had to feign procreation without intercourse, motherhood without loss of virginity? That’s down … Literally nobody famous is Catholic . And yes, the 'virginity' of Mary was likely introduced in the bible through a translation error; and even if it was not, it is only mentioned in parts of the bible that are recognized to have human authorship. And yet 3,000 are said to have converted that day. And we would disagree on how to answer that question. Study finds US Latinos are no longer majority-Catholic. G.K. Chesterton believed that often the first step for a convert is the decision to be fair to the Catholic Church. These are the concerns of a secular modernity to which the Church must respond, sure. One year later, I divorced a man who was narcissistic, dominant, dishonest but also deeply catholic. Because it's possible to have false opinions about morality? Being male, however, seems not negotiable. I have been a Catholic my whole life and was inspired by Vatican II which tuaght me what church is meant to be. Given that most catholics are baptized during their first months of life, this argument might be theoretically appealing but it is not practical for most catholics, as the question of whether a two-month old baby had any morals before becoming a catholic provides no meaningful answer. I think it is that I believe that many of the suppositions that society tells us are true today are ugly and false, and you believe the opposite. In any case, you've got my upvote, because in the very least you'll be providing a fun discussion. She is one of the best people I could have met and her advice was sound. He would no longer engage in ministry within his diocese or religious institute; no longer celebrate Mass or confer the sacraments; no longer be called “Father” or wear clerical clothing; and no longer be supported financially by the Church. I travel a great deal to Africa for my research. The Catholic Church isn’t even historical. The word itself says nothing about the state of that woman's hymen however. Help for abuse victims is available at the Childhelp National Child Abuse Hotline at 800-4 … By January. Your objection is that your non-Catholic (indeed, explicitly anti-Catholic) understanding clashed with that of the Catholic Church. Sure, the existence of persons is a necessary condition of the possibility of social ills, but acting as though abortion and condoms would solve that is like saying that we ought to just shoot all elephants to stop elephant poaching. As a social scientist with a love for anthropology, I know full well that the argument "but all his disciples were men" doesn't hold water. Catholic theologians know next to nothing. Technology, medicine, food, capital and all other resources we require to put an end to poverty are already in existence. It is as if I have been abandoned by the Church I knew and love. Birth control is an affirmation of individual freedom and a rejection of the idea that the female should be reduced to the role of procreation. That’s why I’m Catholic: because I believe Catholicism is true. No one makes the argument that all of Jesus's disciples were men for the simple reason that there were many women who were very prominent among Jesus's disciples. Thus, it would take something extreme to convince everyday Jews and even a few Pharisees (Nicodemus, Paul, etc.) I wouldn’t call that proof... islam, Judaism, buddishm, Hinduism, and many other religions are very old as well. That’s right—fair. Okay. In 2018-19, 47% of Latinos identified as Catholic. NOBLESVILLE, Ind. Like none. I answered this. But the New Testament idea of faith is not simple; indeed, it possesses a breadth of meaning that has led to varying understandings, even within a single Christian communion. Over the course of two thousand years, that doesn't seem to have happened. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the Catholicism community. The other half is frequently using the hashtag #ForeverAlone in their tweets and Instagram posts. Throughout my life, some of the best people I have met were and still are catholics. – Guerin Catholic High School says the students who appeared in a social media video brutally mocking another student are no longer … We know of Phoebe, a deaconess. This is a hobby horse of mine but I do not claim it to be sound or scientific and I take your point. Your argument is like saying that we should just kill abandoned children in order to solve the problem of abandoned children. Being male, however, seems not negotiable. You can throw the "catholic big three" into the mix as well: abortion, contraception and gay marriage. If you would like to make a prayer request, please submit a comment in our weekly prayer request thread stickied at the top of the main page.. There aren't. (or woman, whichever.) I believed in Jesus though, in sin, in being 'good' and 'bad' and a possible reward or punishment for either of those in the after life. Had He wanted to do so with respect to female priestesses, He could have done so and would have had precedent in His own actions (breaking with customs) and in the cults of the Greco-Roman world, which had separate cults for women over which presided women. What's the standard? What makes this religion the correct religion? 5:00PM EST 12/2/2017 Mike Shreve. Catholic Christianity offers the world the fullness of the Christian Faith. And to be honest, sorry to repeat this again, but it makes me extremely sad to read something like this: Lots of places throughout history have allowed for abortions (they had them in antiquity), condoms, etc, and they still had poverty, illness, etc. No longer being Catholic doesn’t mean someone’s undergone a formal process to leave the Catholic Church. So...what should we be striving for? ... As a follower of Jesus, I can no longer endorse what the Scripture does not uphold. The people who likely selected it? Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why. We know of Mary of Magdala, the woman who had seven demons cast out of her and became a devout follower of Christ. Yet none of these attributes were retained as relevant to designate the category of humans from which cahotlic priests should be selected. We can of course, now discuss all these points in detail - except that I don't have time for that - and after months and months of regression (the churches position comes from A,B and C, but where does the church come from? Abortion and condoms do not aim to "solve the problem of the existence of persons", they aim to improve the quality of life and the well-being of existing persons. This does in no way make procreation less of a 'miracle' (for lack of a better word). עַלְמָה from Isaiah 7.14 does indeed mean a 'young woman', but Biblical Hebrew doesn't have a word for 'young woman who's been around town.' This is an excellent explanation. Do you honestly not understand the distinction between an accidental quality, wearing sandals or having long hair, and an essential quality, being a man or a woman? What is bad is not the children themselves, it is the fact that people are forced to have children that they did not choose to have or which they cannot care for. Yet I remember this incident as the first time I saw a wall raised up in front of me for no other reason than my gender. We know of many women throughout history who have been integral to the spread of Christianity. There are photos of me playing dress-up, I had converted my desk into an altar, placed a bible and a huge candle on either side of it, I was wearing a scarf as a stola around my neck and shoulders and trying to look very ceremonial and serious on the photos. And yes, the 'virginity' of Mary was likely introduced in the bible through a translation error; Only if the Bible was not inspired by God. I remember that nun because she gave me advice taking into account my own well-being and not a religious moral standard. Catholicity (from Ancient Greek: καθολικός, romanized: katholikós, lit. Rosary (Pixabay/Myriams-Fotos) Five hundred years ago, on Oct. 31, 1517, a massive, spiritual, paradigm shift took place. If it is true that a human person is conceived during the marital act, then it is true that that deliberately ending that human person's life is murder. My only hole I can think to poke in this is that the documentation could’ve been hyperbolic. I had an opinion on things that did not match anything the church had to say on these issues. This has blown out of proportion a bit, I was not expecting that many comments and have trouble keeping up, especially with longer contributions, as I was typing mostly from my phone. We know more today than we did at any other point in history and we simply cannot accept that poverty continues to befall billions of people. Just want to learn. The longer Latin Mass involved elaborate choreography, and the priest's back was toward the pews. Furthermore, even if there had been women amongst Jesus' followers, the male evangelists would certainly not have found it necessary to mention them. I've never met a man who was scared of the fact that women give birth. I was a very faithful catholic and did everything I was supposed to do but I am in total agreement with you about your assessment of this faith. Help for abuse victims is available at the Childhelp National Child Abuse Hotline at 800-4 … Abstinence and/or birth control are a good way of preventing unwanted pregnancies but they do not apply in the case of rape, or in cases where the mother discovers during a pregnancy that carrying the child to term puts her own life at risk. Saying that poverty has always existed and will therefore always exist is a logical fallacy and it puts many people at risk. What twisted logic is this? Lapsing is thus not necessarily connected with a lack of belief. This reason is given by God in the imago Dei. I hear the sadness in her voice when she offers to pray for me now more than ever. I think that the Bible is a great moral guide to life if nothing else. 4. How was this possible if I had supposedly inherited my morals from religion and could not be "good without God"? The Pope having more control over the people than the Kings and queens, or the consolidation of faith and state. Catholic Christianity offers the world the fullness of … Press J to jump to the feed. Rosary (Pixabay/Myriams-Fotos) Five hundred years ago, on Oct. 31, 1517, a massive, spiritual, paradigm shift took place. Sure, the existence of persons is a necessary condition of the possibility of social ills, but acting as though abortion and condoms would solve that is like saying that we ought to just shoot all elephants to stop elephant poaching. Some moral stances the catholic church is defending are bad for human beings. I can only provide anecdotal evidence to you that you can discard as you wish: personally, I have found that my behaviour is overall more responsible, more altruistic and more conducive to my well-being and that of the people around me now that I have to make ethical decisions that are no longer based on the pre-defined answers provided by religious doctrine. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition of "lapsed" in relation to "lapsed Catholic" is "no longer believing or following the teachings of a religion". /r/Catholic is a place to present new developments in the world of Catholicism, discuss theological teachings of the Catholic Church, provide an avenue for reasonable dialogue amongst people of all beliefs, and grow in our own spirituality. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. A conspiracy that vast and sophisticated would have required sciences and disciplines that didn't even exist until the eighteenth or nineteenth century. Ok, I will reply to the other points later on. If someone asked me, a Catholic theologian, to list "the Catholic big three", these wouldn't even come to mind. At this point I realized something interesting: the bible and the church said something that I found morally wrong. I know this because 12 men went to their deaths, pretty awful deaths without any sort of riches or hedonism to make their lives better, simply because they refused to deny that they had witnessed Christ be executed and then resurrected. Warning: This story includes accounts of reported child sex abuse. I am convinced that condemining people for engaging in any of these three behaviours does NOT make me a better person. Let's say "I am convinced that wanting to change people who are engaging in any of these three behaviours and prevent them from engaging in these behaviours freely" - this is the response I have seen from catholics and the catholic church with regards to these issues and I do not think it is the right one. They were regular folks (St. Ignatius of Loyola is a good example, pre-cannonball). Every single word in the Bible was written by a human. You cannot write them off as "crazy" because the DSM-V does not have a diagnosis for "suddenly became able to love one's neighbor as one's self". This continues: Two thousand years ago in Galilea, society would not have allowed women to follow an itinerant preacher. Sadly, in past 20 years or so, the Catholic Church has moved so far from Vatican II that I can no longer feel a part of it. If we are free to develop our own standards of morality, then by what standard can you look at the Church and say, "Those standards are wrong"? Wasn’t it all just fabricated to control or give hope to people? to profess that not only the promised Messiah, but God Himself had died on the Cross. It's odd that you claim to have studied this at length but make many basic errors, often basic errors involving the New Testament, which presumably would have been the first thing you turned to for answers. While I obviously wasn't personally present for the events in question, I'm comfortable believing that the apostles didn't do the things they did, including allowing themselves to be made martyrs, for something they didn't wholly believe to be true. I'm No Longer a Catholic. Literally nobody famous is Catholic . Poor wording on my part. Catholic Christianity offers the world the fullness of … Explains how and why I left the Roman Catholic Church and the purpose of this series 1. The story just doesn't sound like one you could make up and hope people just believed on faith. Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You' The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has released the official text of a new English-language translation to the Roman Catholic … As such, they contribute to reducing poverty, illness and the number of abandoned children. Just like many preventable diseases, which, at the time, were not preventable yet because we had not developed medicine, vaccines or other preventive measures against them. Furthermore, even if there had been women amongst Jesus' followers, the male evangelists would certainly not have found it necessary to mention them. Poverty has existed throughout history. Why I am no longer a catholic. When I was about 8 years old, I wanted to become a priest. My own relationship was also in crisis. No Longer Catholic It is becoming increasingly difficult to find a good Catholic college these days, particularly because so many Catholic colleges are Catholic in name only. In fact, I love spending time inside old churches. Two thousand years ago in Galilea, society would not have allowed women to follow an itinerant preacher. The gospels do not shy away from 'mentioning' the women among his followers. I was a very faithful catholic and did everything I was supposed to do but I am in total agreement with you about your assessment of this faith. Furthermore, even if there had been women amongst Jesus' followers, the male evangelists would certainly not have found it necessary to mention them. Breadcrumb Trail Links. Like he’s even written a single book. So, true, while there is still an element of faith involved, I think we often neglect the fact that the Gospel story and the subsequent events didn't just appear out of nowhere. My enthusiasm made him very happy and proud. While I no longer believe in the divinity of Jesus, I enjoy reading the bible as a work of literature and philosophy. However, you cannot weigh the concerns of existing human beings against the concerns of potential human beings. I simply wanted to give witness and show that there are other reasons to leave the catholic church besides the recent pedophilia scandals that have horrified so many of us. > **Note: This subreddit is a support forum and not a … One group is falling in love and getting married. The Pope is devoid of fun . I broke our civil union before that day ever came because I had too many doubts at that point and did not want to inflict additional suffering on my parents. Men. There are photos of me playing dress-up, I had converted my desk into an altar, placed a bible and a huge candle on either side of it, I was wearing a scarf as a stola around my neck and shoulders and trying to look very ceremonial and serious on the photos. I'm not surprised by your objections at all. However, let's take the case of an adult, for argument's sake. and even if it was not, it is only mentioned in parts of the bible that are recognized to have human authorship. We know of Mary of Magdala, the woman who had seven demons cast out of her and became a devout follower of Christ. Shows total ignorance of the fundamental difference between then and now as far as the progress in medicine, agriculture, technology and many other fields is concerned. Wow, that’s very true. Find more subreddits like r/Catholicism -- /r/Catholicism is a place to present new developments in the world of Catholicism, discuss theological teachings of the Catholic Church, provide an avenue for reasonable dialogue amongst people of all beliefs, and grow in our own spirituality. Could ’ ve been hyperbolic norms all throughout the Gospels and Acts and be unaware of these were! Itself says nothing about the state of that woman 's hymen however is given God! I hear the sadness in her voice when she offers to pray for now. The middle of a 'miracle ' ( for lack of a secular modernity to which the is... 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More posts from the Quiverfull movement of human agency or a conspiracy that vast and sophisticated would required. Condemining people for engaging in any of these attributes were retained as relevant to designate the category of humans which... Everyday Jews and even if it was not, and the number of abandoned children disciples probably sandals. Warning: this story includes accounts of reported child sex abuse deny the divinity Jesus!